Sign同灵提马太18：20经节，原本是主耶稣应许『只要有两三个人奉主耶稣圣名集会的，主耶稣会与他们同在』，这是一个【和信基督的人同在的永恒性的承诺】，觉得引用这经节支持【多人同工】不是很贴切。
教会组织的迷思非破除不可
当Dust兄刚刚发表他的见解时我还不敢认同，直到找出（马太16：18）原文是“ECCLESIA”而不是“CHURCH”。 【ECCLESIA】的意思是指【一个主耶稣呼召，要信祂的人集聚，遵耶稣基督为王，在磐石上的一个集会】，才敢肯定地同意Dust兄的观点。（有需要的话请参考：主耶稣並没有叫我们建立教会组织）探讨得到的一个结论是，现在的【教会组织行式，一个以中央聚权，取代基督为王的组织】，不是主耶稣所要的。基督不要的，信基督的人怎么可以拥护支持呢？
这是一个非常重要的立场，正确的概念。如果Dust兄和小弟的举证得不到共识，这个现有的中央聚权教会组织王的迷思不能破解，那继续讨论『一个遵基督为王，听信圣灵差遣的集合体，以什么样的形式操作才合乎神的旨意』就变得毫无意义了，不是吗？如果错的架构没有废除，新的架构如何被建立呢？如果这新的架构是建立在旧的架构上，中央组织王【变相的被保留着】，新瓶旧酒（路加5：36-39），主耶稣要的新的【ECCLESIA】在那里呢？我们不是继续活在【以色列王朝】的架构中而已吗？
我们要如何才可以破解这中央聚权？
不是在长敌人的士气灭自己的威风，我对进行这件事並没有很乐观的看法。这些（從他们所结的坏果看到）【不遵主为王的，眼中没有守主的真理的】，像飞来的鸟一样，霸占了长大成树的芥菜上，组织已经被层层黑幕保护着。他们坐在堆积如山的【信徒奉献的钱财上】（请同灵查查有多少），用神的钱，干违反神旨意的事，用他们的政治势力封锁消息，愚惑单纯的会众，再过一些日子，大慨他们知道这种事情就会在会众脑海中慢慢的消失掉，这些飞来的鸟继续在树上吃它们想吃的肥虫！
除非神动工，让所有会众不再养活他们，让他们看到空空的会堂。主耶稣不是应许说（马太18：20）只要两三个人奉主的圣名集会，主耶稣基督就和我们同在，神是无所不在的，在哪里都可以守安息，何必依附在一棵坏树上呢？不是吗？
在没有中央聚权的组织下，一个遵基督为王的集合体如何操作？
如果Sign同灵认同【破解教会中央聚权组织的立场】，那Sign同灵在【對重審楊昱民免職案的建議】，这些建议就非常值得思考。
重提Dust兄的【小结论】
請看之前之回覆...小結：聖經中還有很多例子展現出「敬虔的生活」，這些「聖徒」們並非都活在一個無組 織的階段，卻又非都活在一個有組織的階段，但是他們的共通點都是有恆心、毅力的跟隨主。在前文末肢試圖打破組織的迷思，如今卻要打破的是無組織的迷思。那 到底真正的問題在哪？從上文以及之前很多末肢分享的文中都能看出其實問題是在有沒有敬神愛人，尊主為大，讓聖靈充滿，把主給我們的使命﹝傳福音使萬人做主 的門徒與餵養群羊﹞當作人生最重要且最緊迫的目標，且事事順服主與聖靈的帶領。最後，以提多書第二章11~15節做互相的勉勵：「11因為神救眾人的恩典已經顯明出來，12教訓我們除去不敬虔的心和世俗的情慾，在今世自守、公義、敬虔度日，13等候所盼望的福，並等候至大的神和我們（或作：神─我們）救主耶穌基督的榮耀顯現。14他為我們捨了自己，要贖我們脫離一切罪惡，又潔淨我們，特作自己的子民，熱心為善。15這些事你要講明，勸戒人…」
主耶稣以什么形式传福音呢？
Sign同灵说的不错，人本来就是一个合群的动物，集合在一起，尤其碰到【有领导欲的人】就想把这些人组织起来。换个角度来看，救恩原本是一场属灵的争战，你不去找撒旦，撒旦也会来找你！如果信徒不明白主耶稣的呼召，是要我们遵基督为王。如果信徒不抓住这信念，小心翼翼的不要让【存有撒旦心态的人】利用另一种形态取代基督王，无论我们是以何种形式操作，都会在这场战争中败给主耶稣的敌人的。
主耶稣是如何操作传福音的圣工呢？（请看，马太10：5-15；马可6：7-11；路加9：1-6）十二位门徒，一个团体的模样出来了，犹大是管理钱箱的 （约翰13：29）是一种组织的形态。这团体或组织的头，是基督。在主耶稣基督亲自带领下，门徒（因不了解主，或因人的私欲）也会起纷争（马太20：20-28），每个人都希望自己能比别人做得更大的。基督是门徒的头，主耶稣基督就以神的旨意训诲门徒，“20:25 耶稣叫了他们来，说，你们知道外邦人有君王为主治理他们，有大臣操权管束他们。 20:26 只是在你们中间不可这样。”这不是明明告诉我们，在我们中间『除了基督王』之外，不可以有『另一个属世的君王』吗？这个团体的头非基督莫属吗？
使徒保罗不也是这么说吗？（以弗所书5：23-24；哥罗西书1：15-18）（请记得把CHURCH换会原本的（集会））保罗说基督是这【集会】的头，基督是这团体的头；这不也是等于说基督是这集会或团体的王吗？
主耶稣有没有花钱买机票送他的门徒出去传福音呢？主耶稣不是有管钱箱的犹大吗？但四福音书里，主耶稣差遣门徒出去传福音连一文钱也没有给他们。（马太10:9 腰袋里，不要带金银铜钱。 10:10 行路不要带口袋，不要带两件褂子，也不要带鞋和拐杖。因为工人得饮食，是应当的。）
至少，这种集合体，或团体，是主耶稣为我们立下的榜样，在我们中间不可以有另一个属世君王，我们只能有基督王，是不是呢？
勉励的话
（路加5:39 没有人喝了陈酒又想喝新的，他总说陈的好。）
我们已经在旧的架构中操作这么长的时间，已经习惯了。所以要从埃及地进入迦南地，难！要從旧约进入新约，难！要從旧架构进入新架构，难！所以请不要以为我们所要做的事情，是容易的！
愿神赐给我们智慧和勇敢，（民数记13：2-33）因为我们也会像要进入迦南地的以色列人一样，会听到像迦勒信心的言语，也会听到有人报恶信。
重要的是，如果我们都深信只有【信耶稣基督的人才有永生】，那我们应该晓得我们要符合主耶稣的呼召，知道这样做是对的！
所以要不要进迦南地，你们自己决定吧！我已经立定志向，我心中一定有一位王，就是耶稣基督。只有遵基督为王的，才有可能进入神赐给我们的永生！
愿神赐给你们平安！
Reply to Sign
Sign had quoted verse Matthew 18:20, which is meant to mean that whenever there is two or three who gather in Jesus’ name, Lord Jesus had promised that he will be with them. This is an eternal promise. However I just felt that using the verse in supporting the viewpoint that it is beneficial to have more people to work together is inappropriate.
The myth of church organization has to be broken
When brother Dust posted his opinion about smashing the church organization myth, I was hesitating to agree with him, until I have satisfied myself that the word “ECCLESIA” had been replaced by a totally different word of different meaning “CHURCH”. Then I realized that “ECCLESIA” meant to mean, an assembly of people who have been called-out by Lord Jesus, who would have Christ as their King and who have gather on the rock. (If necessary you can refer to: Lord Jesus did not mean to tell us to build a church organization) The discussion had led to a conclusion, that is [the current church organization, with a powerful central body, who has replaced King-Jesus as the king of the organization) is not what Lord Jesus wanted. Thing that Christ forbade how could a believer of Christ exalt and support?
This is a very important standpoint and a correct concept. If all evidences listed by Dust and I could not lead to a common understanding and agreement, and if the church organization myth could not be shattered, then continuing to discuss [how should a body, as an assembly called-out by Christ and upholding Christ as its King, operate which would abide with God’s Will] become quite meaningless, isn’t it? If an wrong structure could not be demolished, how could we erect a new structure? If the new structure is being built on top of the old structure, the central organization king will be preserved by masquerading into another form. It will be like old wine in new bottle (LUKE 5:36-39). Where the new assembly that Lord Jesus called-out is? Aren’t we just continue to live in the [Israelite Kingdom] structure?
What can we do to shatter the central organization power?
I am not trying to boost the enemy’s morale and diminishing our courage, but I am not optimistic about our ability to shatter such organization power. From (the fruits bore by them), we see that [they are not having Jesus as their King and in their eyes there is no God’s commandments]. They were more like the birds who had occupied the branches of the mustard tree. They had established layers of black-shields protecting their interests. They were sitting on piles of money contributed by church members (may be some one can find out how much it is). They utilized this financial resource working against the Will of God. They extended their political influence suppressing the news. They misled our simple-minded members. For sure after time passed, they knew that most of the people would forget what had happened and everything will be back to normal. They could continue to feed themselves with the big-fat-worms!
Therefore, unless God interferes, stopping the assembly from feeding them, let them see the empty chapel, such people will prevail. Didn’t Lord Jesus promise to us that wherever we gather, if there is more than two or more people gather in his name, he will be with them? I do not see the point why should brethren and sisters continue to observe Sabbath by attaching to a bad tree?
How could an assembly who upholds Christ as King operate under the circumstances of having no church central organization?
If Sign agreed that we should shatter the church organization myth, then the examples Sign mentioned in the posted article, worth for serious consideration.
Quoting Brother Dust’s [little-conclusion] in 請看之前之回覆...
Little-conclusion: In the Bible, we can find many examples how people lived a devoted life. The saints were not really lived together without an organization structure but they were not lived in an organization structure either. But all examples possessed a commonality that was they were devoted and persevered to follow only the Lord. My previous article was to shatter organization myth, but now I am determined to shatter the myth without an organization. Where the real problem lies? From this article and other past articles, I had shared with you that the real problem lied in the fact that the organization did not fear God and love people. They did not exalt Lord as their master. They did not fill with the Holy Spirit. They did not hold on to their mission of [preaching the Gospel to all the people and to nourish the sheep of God] and be submissive to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Let me quote the passage as mutual encouragement: (Titus 2:11-15 11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. 15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you. )
What was the structure Lord Jesus set up to preach the Gospel?
Sign was correct to say that human beings are sociable and like to live in a group. Especially when there are people who are borne with the desire to lead, they will organize the group into an organization so that they could lead. From another angle of view, salvation by itself is a spiritual warfare. You do not need to seek Satan and Satan will come and find you. So if believers do not have a clear understanding that the calling of Lord Jesus is for us to make him our only King; if believers do not hold steadfast to this concept and be very careful not to be misled by [those who behave like Satan] to worship another King in place of King-Jesus, then, irrespective in what structure we operate, we are destined to lose this war to the enemy of Christ.
How did Lord Jesus operate the missionary of preaching the Gospel? (Please refer to: Matthew 10:5-15; Mark 6:7-11; Luke 9:1-6) There were twelve disciples and the shape of a body had formed. Judas the Iscariot was in charge of the money box, and you see that there was the image of a possible organization. (John 13:29) Whether you treat it as a body or an organization, the head was Christ. In the leadership of Lord Jesus Christ, the disciples (because they misunderstood Christ, or because of their own personal desires) struggled and quarreled with one another. (Matthew 20:20-28) Everyone was thinking about having a higher position in the Kingdom of Christ (on earth). Christ was the head of the disciples. So Christ reprimanded his disciples according to the Will of God, “25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you”. Can you see that from this passage, Lord Jesus had clearly told us that besides having Lord Jesus Christ as our King, we should not have any worldly king? The head of this assembly must be King-Jesus!
Not to our surprise, this was exactly the same message given by Apostle Paul. (Ephesians 5:23-24; Colossians 1:15-18) (Please remember to replace the word church with the correct word, ecclesia or assembly) Paul said the Christ was the head of the assembly; Christ was the head of this body (as an assembly); and these were equivalent of saying that Lord Jesus Christ was the King of the assembly or body, right?
Did Lord Jesus purchase air tickets to send his disciples to preach the Gospel (not to say that there was no airplane at that time)? Didn’t Lord Jesus have someone taking care of the money box? But in the books of four Gospel, Lord Jesus sent his disciples out without giving them any money. (Matthew 10:9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.)
At least, we can see that such kind of assembly or a body was an example set up by Lord Jesus. Therefore amongst us, we should not have any form of worldly king. We should only have one king that is King-Jesus, isn’t it?
Words of encouragement
(Luke 5:39 And no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says, 'The old is better.')
We have been living under the old structure for such a long time and we may have gotten used to it. Therefore to exit from Egypt to the land of Canaan, was difficult! To transform from Old Covenant to New Covenant, was difficult! To change from Old Organization Structure to a New Organization Structure, is going to be difficult too! Therefore do not mistaken it is an easy task going forwards!
I pray that God gives us the wisdom and courage, (Number 13:2-33) because we would encounter similar situations that the Israelites had encountered when they tried to enter the land of Canaan. There will be people like Caleb who utter words of courage and there will be people who will warn you of the impossibility.
The most important is that, we have to deeply believe that only [believe Lord Jesus will lead us to eternal life]. Then we may perceive that answering to Lord Jesus’ called-out is the only right thing to do.
Therefore whether to enter the land of Canaan or not, you have to decide for yourself. I do know I have made a decision that there is only one king in my heart, and he is Lord Jesus Christ. I believe, only those who uphold Christ as their King will have the chance of entering the eternal life given to us by God!
May peace be with you always!
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